Myth: I Can Simply Outsource it All to India
I guess we can blame Timothy Ferriss, author of the Four Hour Work Week for this one because everywhere I go, Internet Marketers are inquiring on how they can find reliable help in India. It's almost as if they feel this is the only and best option for getting help in their business.
I don't necessarily think so.
Disclaimer: For those who know me, I don't think disclaimer is necessary...but I want to clarify that my object is not a knock on any person or service provider from India or any foreign country for that matter. It has everything to do with what is best for your own business.
In fact, recently John Reese suggested to outsource customer support and to outsource it to India to save some cash. This was my comment on his post (I have edited slightly for clarify and relevance to this blog entry):
Awesome advice…ALWAYS outsource customer support, but I’m a tad surprised to see suggestions to outsource to countries where English is not the native language just to save a buck or two. Or do you really save?
I may be naive and it seems like “all the big companies are doing it” (see my recent eFax rant) but are they doing themselves damage in the process? I’m sure you’d agree that customer support is a HUGE part of profitability and good customer service is what keeps customers coming back for more and it also helps encourage word-of-mouth.
But what happens when your customer service is not what it should be? I think you run that risk when you run your support through a company that staff non-native speakers of English. It doesn’t matter how much school they had or how much they practiced their English, a non-Native speaker who doesn’t live in an English-speaking country doesn’t understand the colloquialisms and idioms your customers are going to use…among other things.
And my goodness, I’ve experienced this first hand on a number of support calls, and on particular one of note (and now another with eFax, argh!). I don’t think I used any irregular language (I was careful not to as I instantly knew what I was dealing with).
The people I spoke to just didn’t understand what I was saying. And as I spoke to everyone from staff member to manager to the manager’s manager, it was clear they were reading from a script and a manual that didn’t allow them to use their own instincts or experience to assess the situation. They simply didn’t comprehend the situation as a whole.
Of course, if you are doing email / help desk support, your issues may be different. And as a former ESL teacher, I can tell you, that there are different countries in the world where people either write more fluently or speak more fluently in English. It is rare that they can do both as a generalization. I won’t post those comments here because I certainly don’t want to appear to stereotype, but it all comes down to the education system where they are taught English and to some degree, how closely related their native language is to English.
So, my thoughts are - definitely outsource your support…just be careful where you outsource it to.
The Most Important Message - Cheapest is Not Always Best
Customer service issues aside, it's not necessarily what's cheapest that's the best. It's about what produces the best results for your business. Whether it's programming, design or link building where fluency in the language isn't as important as it is with customer service - you need to find the best for you.
Here's what I suggest as best for a solo online entrepreneur: Finding the right key people and keep them by your side.
It doesn't matter if they charge $5 per hour or $50. I don't know about you, but I'm not a huge company with tons of staff where I can play the numbers game that the big guns do. I need good help and I'll leave the nickel and diming to people who can afford to make their labor force a disposable one.
I'm a solo entrepreneur who needs a few key people by my side that will grow with me and come to intuitively understand my needs. For that, I'm willing to pay a premium and I am always willing to reward my key people by valuing their work more and more.
So outsource where you will...but do what's best for your longterm business success - not just temporary relief to your PayPal account.
28 Comments:
I hate it that many internet marketers who make good money on the web end up begrudging a few bucks for support staffing.
There are so many moms here who want a way to work at home providing simple support over the phone and they don't need high dollars, most are happy to earn $8-10 an hour for their time.
Sure you can hire someone in India for $3 or $4 - but how about a little pride in supporting home industry?
Maybe we msut supporting our home industry first..
I couldn't agree more about the need to make sure that outsourced customer service is at least as good as how we would do it ourselves.
After all, our reputation is at stake here!
Food for thought...
Maybe the Indian outsourcing companies are providing such excellent customer service to their clients who are outsourcing their customer service to them, that they (the customers, I mean... not their customers ;) Or do I? ) are coming back for more - and bringing their friends with them?!
Nice post :)
All success
Dr.Mani
I agree with you...do what is best for you and your business..but keep quality in mind. I actually did outsource a site to be built one time...most expensive thing I have ever done and guess what...still dont' have the site..spent thousands. I got burned! Learned a lesson, I believe it was just my luck; however, just wanted to share. I think all experiences aren't this but it is a risk when you don't meet someone in person. You can get burned here (U.S.) as well. So I am on the fence here, but I like what you said!
Great post Alice!
I've seen this in the UK where a large portion of big companies outsource to India. I've contacted some of these places for support and the conversations are plain ridiculous.
I think many times they're reading from a manual and just keep following protocol without actually trying to understand what the problem is in the first place, but moving on...
Some people in India are providing awesome support. Particularly the smaller companies, many of these are helpers who have phDs and other degrees but have found they can make more money providing support online.
I've used a webdesigner there for half the price but it's not all about the price - the service was fast, they were professional and downright awesome.
In the US I've had several designers flake out on me and many who believe they're too "good" to get out of bed for less than x amount.
I also agree that hiring moms who could use the extra money is great, but god knows I've dealt with a few who have either disappeared or have quickly felt that x amount per hour was just not enough money.
I wholeheartedly agree with you Alice that cheap isn't always the best thing - but if you can find cheap and great then that's pretty darn hard to compete with.
As you said, I think it's important to build a long-term relationship because we can't afford to keep changing people and dealing with those issues all the time.
but overall it doesn't matter to me whether they are based in India or the US, it's an open market place and the good people will rise to the top.
Of course, like everything else there are some people that are right for certain jobs while not great for others. I probably wouldn't outsource customer support or writing to India.
In that case, Dr. Mani - they had a good experience with a COMPANY, rather than a COUNTRY, right? I think that may be where people are getting mixed up.
BTW - I hear you outsource to Africa. :-) See, we all do what's best for our businesses.
Great post Alice! I couldn't agree with you more. One of my biggest pet peaves in dealing with customer support with local companies (my cable & internet provider to be specific) is that they use people in India to provide customer service but I have never had good luck calling this company ever - noone understands what I'm saying and I can't understand what they are saying so if I'm feeling frustrated then I'm sure they are feeling frustrated too.
I guess if someone is outsourcing their email support to someone in India and that person is providing great customer service then so be it.
But like Kelly said - how about a little pride in supporting home industry?
Re: Quote "There are so many moms here who want a way to work at home providing simple support over the phone and they don't need high dollars, most are happy to earn $8-10 an hour for their time.
The thing here is...I cannot afford to ensure "another" mom can stay home and work. Or, for that matter, support any mom to stay home. All moms would rather stay home. And there are millions of mommies out there.
It's my business and my top priority is quality, competitive pricing, and to keep MY people employed :)
Unfortunately, competitive pricing is what can make this happen.
Hi Alice,
Got here via your twitters.
Sensible Post and Good Advice.
I made a silly mistake the other day.
Was on a support line to India. My mother, in her eighties bought herself a Vista computer. Nothing she had worked with it. I spent 2 days configuring the router. Hours of calls to support. Finally I got a guy who went for it with me. We cracked the problem between us in about 1 1/2 hours. I said that he was a genius and thanked him. He said, No that I had cracked the problem. Really we had worked together nicely. In the same way that I work with guys who help me around my house, garden and warehouse.
The mistake was not taking his email.I relised the moment I hung up!!
I would have been delighted to work with him hourly bit by bit until my webworld grows to the point that I could keep him full time.
I think in that sense it can work well for individuals.
Best,
George
Hey Alice,
Great stuff. It's so odd to me that people would leave the support of their Customers, the actual contact with their Clients who need help or want to buy something else in the hands of someone that may risk giving the Client a negative impression. I don't care if the support folks are from Tejana or Trinidad, New York or Nepal, Pakistan or Philadelphia. Your Customers are the lifeblood of your business.
I can see using a cheaper box to ship with or maybe less expensive void v fill, but not Customer service. I have a book full of horrible customer service issues, some with people in the states some with outsourced to other country reps. The common denominator was that they did not. The did not understand or the did not care - both of them deadly.
Be careful of outsourcing the way you touch your customers - if you're not really careful... you just might not need your out-sourcer after a while!
John
Hiring people from a foreign country will hurt the economy in the country you live in. This is because if every company did this, there would be less people working in the country that you reside.
Great post Alice. I couldn't agree more I and think it's wonderful to see someone putting out there for others to think about.
I have gone through many similar experiences where I simply just have to hang up, because getting help just isn't going to happen.
There isn't anything more frustrating than not being able to communicate.
Been there and done that. I have also experienced first hand what happens when new Internet business owners try to implement customer support when they don't really understand how to support their customers.
Bad support can slowly kill your business and you wouldn't even know it was happening until it was too late. That's because too many business owners don't want to know about the issue, let alone address it.
How many of us are tired of support systems that don't respond; don't understand our issue and provide the WRONG response; like so many of you already pointed out...can't communicate with the call operator; are tired of complicated call trees with never-ending "push 2 now?"
If you can't manage your customer support yourself, you will never be able to successfully outsource it to India or or China or anywhere else. That's because you don't understand the basic needs of your customers.
Excellent comments... :-)
You're going to find excellent help in most countries... but you're also guaranteed to run across terrible help in EVERY country. Often it's just easier to find good help (if you're willing to pay a premium) in "first-world" english-speaking countries.
But even if you choose countries like the UK or Australia, where people do speak "native" English, you can still occasionally run into communication challenges.
As an aside...
Most people who run an online business do for the primary reason of profit -- not national pride. I wonder if those who complain about internet marketers outsourcing to other countries would adhere to the same "standard"... if some internet marketer from another country were to want to hire THEM for some project. Would they then decline the offer, suggesting that marketer should support their OWN country's home industry??? (Just something to think about.)
;-)
This is why I don't outsource work for cheap rates overseas :
1. English and correct grammar are an issue and one that costs me time and effort to communicate properly with and understand. I don't need the added stress of trying to figure out what someone is trying to say to me.
2. Having someone in and/or close to the same timezone allows me to contact them within my business hours if need arises which is very convenient to me.
3. Local outsourcers are more aware of standards, practices, culture of North Americans ie) it doesn't snow in Vancouver folks even though we are in Canada.
At the end of the day, you get what you pay for.
For example, the other day I had a "blonde moment" here at Internet Marketing Sweetie website that I just couldn't wrap my head around. Guess what? Alice's VA corresponded twice in long emails to me and then even built a camtasia video to teach me what I needed to know so I could understand. She went that extra mile! I can't even imagine a company in India going out of their way like that to help me but Mel did. That is customer service and that is what a good outsourcer will give you and why I've always stuck close to home finding outsourcers.
As an American software developer I've seen so many sides of this elephant.
First, you have to know what good customer service is. In all honesty, I find few companies, American or not that 'really' know what that is.
So it goes without saying that you NEED to test, monitor and certify that the people you hire know what they're doing.
Second, the cost of living is so much less in certain foreign countries an experienced, well-educated person's fees can cost a fraction of the price we'd have to pay for an inexperienced, uneducated American.
We can agree that there is a cultural divide but foreign students are large percentage of American Universities. Now with widespread broadband shooting youtube videos across the world the cultural divide is getting smaller.
On the phone people can generally tell if it's a non-American but what about an email response?
What if your customer service is only email and it comes down to answering the same 15-20 questions (and you have the answers scripted out)? Would you pay the more expensive American price or a 10th of the price and be more competitive?
These are the issues of the day.
Customer support - often a huge amount of time is spent on customer support but it's so necessary and vital to your business.
Outsourcing to a company that provides great service, in whatever Country, is a good plan.
Outsourcing to a CHEAP company just to save a buck is stupid.
You might not experience a mass exodus of customers but you will find customers leaving. Dell's customer support is so horrible that I will never buy another Dell computer as long as I live and I'm extremely vocal about it. Granted, I'm only one customer....but over time, it adds up.
I'm also very pro-US. I feel US businesses should hire US people, whenever possible.
India is not some magical box where you can simply outsource something and it comes back perfect and complete - that is a misconception. I have learned on many projects that it takes more work to manage someone on the other side of the world than it does in your own backyard.
Hey Alice!
So that's why I have so much trouble. One of the credit card companies I used had that problem. I simply could not get the person on the other side of the phone to understand the problem. Plus I like what was said about at home moms. Right now, I don't have a huge customer support, but I will! One of the things I have learned is that you don't have to hire someone. In my state, it is very expensive to do so, with L&I and such. I have decided to hire a 'contractor.' They would be resonsible for their own taxes and such, make a little money on the side, and I can keep down the costs. (I think L&I is great. When I begin hiring for people to come and wash bottles and such, I will hire them straight out.) Great Job, Alice!
Alice, I agree wholeheartedly with the whole post. I have been on too many service calls for help, no matter what the company, where I have had to deal with someone either who didn't understand me or I couldn't understand. No matter how hard I tried, they couldn't help me.
I don't know if they were from India or not, but if you have customers that are from English speaking countries, the least you can do is have English speaking help. It has made me wish I could change my service provider!
Our Trust has recently outsourced link creation in India. Can't say it was the best choice. I notice that Kelly says there are many work-at-home moms willing to work for the wages we can afford.
Where do we find them?
Wintergreen, trustee
Common Knowledge Trust
www.commonknowledgetrust.com
www.birthingbetter.com
Outsourcing is good. We do much outsourcing in our business and it helps us to move faster. As to India - yes, I personally had a very disappointing experience with an Indian guy. They are not very reliable.
i can't decide if those who consistently choose 'cheap' first, are just tight wades or sheep following the latest greatest fade. in life, nothing is free. if it seems too good to be true, than wise up and look for the compromise. if it's one you can live with, than go with cheap and deal with the drawbacks. i, personally, am not willing to settle for hit/miss. i pay my assistant's well because i recognize and appreciate their contributions to my biz. (by the way, the payoff for this 'good will' has been huge!!)
I'm seeing comments I agree with. Outsourcing for money alone gives us product that is difficult to use. PLR that doesn't reflect our culture; support information from archaic sources. It's as if I used my Office 2000 books to advise you on Office 2007 In difference and impossible to understand or who cannot understand me. I don't care for that sort of contact right down the street, let alone across the world. Virtual Assistant can be translated Outsourcing. Just grabbing something off the shelf that doesn't fit the end user has to hurt the business person. Husks don't make good food.
There is a good chance that too many are shopping only by price and don't check the outsourcing service. I have stopping doing business with an entity that doesn't provide good support service and I will do it again. THat leaves someone with a good business who needs help in a position where they cannot hire anyone from anywhere.
By the same token, I have proposed marriage to obviously offshore support people who wouldn't give up and just let me scrub a domain and start again, but who insisted on solving the tangled puzzle.
Hey thanks Alice, this is good advice. I appreciate it whenever someone doesn't just praise the latest greatest advice but actually examines it, thinks about it and dares to suggest alternatives.
It's like an antidote for the "must have", "must belong" crowd.
Thanks again,
Sam
Hi Alice,
I Hate talking to support in India and other countries. both for the reasons you mentioned, i.e. they don't really get what I am saying, colloquialisms, etc and also because I just can't understand their accents. My last experience in April was so devastating with Bruce (I am absolutely sure that was not his birth name and I am sure I would never be able to pronounce his birth name and that is why he goes by Bruce, (which by the way you roolll the r in Brrrrrruce)I had to ask to talk to someone I could understand so they put in David (I don't think David was his birth name either) His accent was very hard to understand too but was a slight improvement. I finally had to buy a new service plan because my warranty would expire before I got my computer shipped back to HP, so I did. Then I sent it in and got it back. Not the computer I sent in mind you but another with a dent on the speaker. I put my battery back in and it ran until the battery died, Which is why I sent it in, in the first place. I have never tried to send it back because the 3 or 4 hours I spent with people who I cannot communicate with was just not worth the hassle. Next time I wont buy an HP/Compaq product because it really was a very frustrating experience. I am not mad at Bruce or David. I applaud them for having a job and trying. I am sure it was equally tough on them and I did manage to keep my cool for the most part but I will not buy again from a company that makes it that hard to get my problems fixed. Which is too bad because I have 2 Compaqs and I buy about 1 a year. Over a lifetime? That's a lot of money. Also I think that stay at home moms are doing the most important job in the world and it is good for them to be able to make some extra cash.
Hi Alice,
Although increasing amounts of work is moving offshore, I decided I would not be in front of the pack on this one. I value the relationships with my tiny team; that's what I'm paying extra for and it's worth every penny.
Neill
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