The Official Internet Marketing Sweetie Blog

Thursday, December 13, 2007

Why I Don't Use ClickBank to Manage My Affiliate Program: Three Thoughts


Recently, a customer who purchased Affiliate Manager Sweetie, sent me this question:

"There was one comment you made about ClickBank that it wasn't as good because you don't find out who your affiliates are but there is software that can help with this issue."

In the course, I do believe I mentioned there are software solutions to help you collect affiliate data, but I thought I'd elaborate here and explain in 3 thoughts why ClickBank has never been my first choice for managing my affiliate program:

1. You don't have all your affiliate contact info as I stated in the course. Yes, there is software that you can use that allows you to make your affiliate go through a sign up process before you give them their hoplink. In fact all you need is a simple autoresponder sign up to capture their info before giving them a hoplink, but some of the software has more sophisticated link creation capabilities for your affiliates, so I do understand the use of the software. In fact, Jimmy D. Brown uses a similar system, but I hear he's thinking of breaking out of ClickBank with future products.

Here's the potential problem with the software: You'll only catch those that go to your site. Those who find you through the marketplace won't need to go through the sign up process.

Of course, that's a perk of the marketplace where you can get extra exposure, so why not, right? Well, my guess is that not all affiliates are browsing the marketplace randomly when they find your link at ClickBank. They see other people promoting your product and they see it's a hoplink, so they go to CB to find theirs...circumventing your system. I've done this many time, not intentionally avoiding signing up for a program, but because I saw a product that I wanted to promote on another site and then just went to ClickBank.

Again, you might think...the more affiliates the better, right? Sure but...

2. Consider that the anonymous open marketplace can open you up to spammers and other unscrupulous promoters. You have no control, can't stop a particular hoplink (other than to stop selling by ClickBank) and it is a very real loss of control. Of course, if there are spam or other serious issues, Clickbank should step in, but you'll have to wait for them to take action. But overall, you have no control to keep someone out of your program.

It's a risk to think about.

NOTE: You don't have to list your product in the marketplace, but if you don't want it listed...why not manage your own program instead?

3. Overall, you need to decide if being at the mercy of ClickBank what you really want? If ClickBank is the only way you sell your product, you really are at their mercy. You have to follow all their rules and if they change them, you have to abide. I visit forums where people are constantly complaining that:
  • "ClickBank is becoming stricter on allowing certain products." Often this is in the area of the Internet marketing niche on products like email list building, etc. where there is potential for abuse. But even if your product is stellar and totally by-the-book, you may lose out because ClickBank simply wants to protect itself.
  • "They give out refunds too easily." Now, if you have a money-back guarantee, you've gotta give people their money back, but people have learned to game the ClickBank system. They also know they don't have to directly contact the seller, so it's easy to just buy and get a refund.
  • "People Self-Serve Discounts by Buying Through Their Own Affiliate Link": This one really bothers me for a couple reasons and I don't allow it in my own program.

    First of all, when an affiliate self-serves they often take commissions away from an affiliate that actually referred the sale. That completely takes away from the spirit of an affiliate program.

    Second of all, I do understand the need to check out a product before promoting it and sometimes it helps to get it at a discount. If an affiliate is looking for a review copy, they should contact me directly and not simply help themselves to a discount. Most people who do this on the sly have no intention of promoting anything.

If you want to do business with ClickBank, you have to accept these types of restrictions and realize that you have to do what they say or get out.

Overall (and I think I'm heading into Thought #4), it is an expensive option. Yes, it's nice that they take care of paying your affiliates (but you know you can do it with a few click of your mouse in PayPal all by yourself?) and you can get extra exposure from their marketplace, but personally I'd rather take that extra money and hire an affiliate manager to get people into my own system and working hard to promote my products.

Fee Information from ClickBank's Website:

"For most transactions, ClickBank purchases the product from the publisher at a wholesale price equal to 92.5% of retail, less a $1 stocking charge. For example: If ClickBank sells your product for $50 to the customer, you would get $50 x .925 - $1 = $45.25. For rebills associated with a recurring billing product where the rebill is less than $40, ClickBank purchases the rebill product from the publisher at a wholesale price equal to 90.1% of retail.

For affiliate directed sales, the commission percentage is subtracted from the net sale price."

That is NOT cheap.

Overall, the choice is yours and I'm speaking from my point of view. I've evaluated ClickBank, but never used it. There are also thousands of people perfectly happy with the system (and I welcome their's and everyone's comments below).

Either way, if you're thinking of selling with ClickBank, you can consult their FAQ here or share your thoughts below.

10 Comments:

Blogger Regina said...

Great information Alice. I've never been a huge Clickbank fan anyway. This is great for me to share with a friend who is considering using them for their affiliate program. Thanks.

4:34 PM  
Blogger Wayne Buckhanan said...

PayDotCom.com vs Clickback

For those looking for more control with most of the same benefits PDC might be of interest.

You can restrict who you accept as affiliates, they also have a marketplace, and you can email all of your affiliates.

5:04 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think a lot of marketers don't care that buyers can go to clickbank and buy through their own hoplink. You just need to look at the promonant "Affiliate" link on the majority of sales pages.

Marketers know what price they are happy with and could not care less how the sale is made, as long as they get paid. They don't care that they are screwing their affiliates by putting a link to their affiliate program on the page.

Trying to make a living selling as an affiliate is akin to starting out in MLM (Amway etc).

Just my opinion.

5:16 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Clickbank really screws over smaller affilates.

They require purchases from 5 different credit card numbers before they will pay an affiliate. (What other affiliate program has such an insane policy?) And what is even worse it is that after a while if you don't get that minimum they start deducting part of your commission from you each month.

I think programs like Adsense that have high minimums for payout are bad enough, but at least they don't outright steal the commissions smaller affiliates have earned the way Clickbank does.

7:15 PM  
Blogger Kelly said...

Alice, I agree with you on all fronts. I understand why some merchants like the hands off management that clickbank provides - but I like having my hands on my sales, customers and affiliates :)

7:54 PM  
Blogger Alice said...

Thanks everyone.

Regina, I'm pretty sure your friend should be using WAHM Cart!

Wayne - You know, I'm not such a fan of PayDotCom either, but again, a lot of people are happy and they do solve a lot of ClickBank's problems. Unfortunately, with PDC, you are limited to selling with PayPal. It is also a pretty costly venture to work with them. As an affiliate, I find their system slow (unless things have improved) and I'm reluctant to use it when I see someone runs their program there.

pt49 - You're absolutely right. A lot of them don't care, but as an affiliate manager, I do...and don't allow people to do it.

Paul - I've heard that and I am willing to bet the person selling the product never sees the money back from affiliates that are never paid or who have amounts deducted. That's a real shame.

Kelly - Rock on!

9:23 AM  
Blogger Regina said...

Yeah, Wahmcart's surely the one ;-) however, most people think that if they go with Clickbank it will bring more affiliates to the table, which in some cases it does however, when you provided the bullet points, it helps to add someone else's opinion to the conversation ;-)

3:50 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hi Alice.

Paul - CB holds checks for 5 sales to discourage discount seekers from signing up for the express purpose of getting a discount (since they'll have to wait for 5 sales from several different states/zipcodes, before they get paid).

You shouldn't be so hard on CB for having the holdback policy, since it seeks to discourage discount seekers.

If an affiliate never reaches 5 sales then chances are that they're probably a discount seeker, since this 5 sale hurdle is a one-time event (it doesn't have to be met every payday, forever). Once 5 sales are reached, this limit no longer applies to future paydays. It's not unreasonable.

Alice - As for your spam comments, that's a very real concern and your comments express a legit point of view.

However, in reality ClickBank has an "abuse email address" which shuts down affiliate spammers immediately, and they take this issue MORE seriously than vendors do (ClickBank's hoplink URL is vulnerable to blacklisting if they don't act quickly to shut down affiliate spammers). So in reality they do act immediately.

Alice - As for the stricter "site acceptance" issue, you may be surprised at how lenient they are.

In reality CB accepts sites that any merchant bank would reject on the spot, since merchant banks don't accept things like survey sites, get-rich-quick sites or money making ebooks which promise millions, etc.

Those topics are considered high-risk by merchant banks, and are very hard to get accepted.

ClickBank's acceptance rules are quite lenient when viewed in that context. It takes a pretty risky topic or a pretty wildly-worded site to get rejected by ClickBank, and it's certainly a rare occurrence regardless of what the WF members claim.

Alice - ClickBank's 7.5% fee (plus $1) is higher than normal, you're correct about that. However, it's cheaper than PDC when you factor in the PayPal fees.

-------As for ClickBank vs. PayDotCom:

ClickBank's fees are virtually identical to those of PayDotCom, even cheaper for products under $50.

For a $30 product ClickBank is cheaper than PayDotCom.

PDC/PP fees are $4.05 ($3 + 2.5% + .30 cents)

ClickBank's fees are $3.25 (7.5% + $1)

For a $40 product PDC/PP fees are $4.30, while ClickBank's fees are $4.00

For a $50 product PDC/PP fees are $4.55, while ClickBank's fees are $4.75 (virtually identical)

Plus, if you use PayPal only (PayDotCom) then your account is subject to being "limited" at ANY time if sales go too high, and many people must fax in documents for weeks before they get full access restored.

ClickBank has no such unfair or arbitrary rules which limit accounts. ClickBank offers more peace of mind in that regard.

-------ClickBank vs Merchant Account:

CB's fees are about twice what a merchant account would charge for digital products, that's true.

However, ClickBank doesn't have monthly processing limits like merchant banks do, since most new merchant accounts are limited to $10k per month in sales, with very few exceptions.

With CB you can process virtually unlimited sales, with no worries about limits.

Alice - The refund issue is valid, but when viewed in context it's not as bad as many people believe.

The "overall" ClickBank refund rate is only 7% across all accounts (that's public info), and many ClickBank vendors are far below that amount.

If you'd like some context, please remember that Mike Filsaime reported an 8.2% refund rate for "The 7 Figure Code" when it launched earlier this year, and that product uses its own merchant account, not ClickBank (so ClickBank's average refund rate is even less than Filsaime's reported refund rate for that particular product).

Alice - As for affiliate management, the suggestion that it's just as easy to pay affiliates using PayPal is debatable.

There are two main problems with using PayPal over CB to pay affiliates:

1) 1099's
2) Trust factor diminished

Sending out 1099's to every affiliate making over $600 is a pain if you have a lot of affiliates each year.

Also, unknown/new vendors will have trouble attracting big dog affiliates if they pay using PayPal, since that option requires all affiliates to "trust" the vendor to pay them on time, every payday. If vendors are "new" then nobody big will trust them.

If you use ClickBank then affiliates have no worries about "trust".

ClickBank's affiliate management program provides much more than "convenience" in my opinion, it provides a 3rd party "trust" mechanism too.

-JQP

9:58 PM  
Blogger Alice said...

Hi JQP,

Thank you for your thoughtful feedback. It's good to hear the other side.

Just on a few of your points...

The reasoning for the check hold back may very well be true, but ClickBank seems to have set themselves to have to do this. If they didn't allow self-serving in the first place, it wouldn't be an issue.

From their FAQ:

"ClickBank accounts cannot be used for the sole purpose of collecting rebates or otherwise extending credit to yourself or others. In compliance with US law, ClickBank will withhold payment of any account balance until it contains standing sales made with 5 or more different credit card numbers, including at least one Visa card, and one MasterCard. PayPal and eCheck purchases do not count toward the minimum."

That is NOT necessarily 5 sales since it depends on payment methods and I disagree someone who makes less than 5 sales is likely a freebie seeker. There are plenty of small affiliates that do just a handful of sales..and if they're only promoting 1 product, then it's not that hard to conceive. Sure, they aren't a big time affiliate, but a lot of smaller affiliates do add up.

Out of curiosity, does anyone know which U.S. law the statement above refers to?

From JQP: "Alice - As for the stricter 'site acceptance' issue, you may be surprised at how lenient they are."

I'm surprised because I do see the garbage they do allow, but again, you're subject to their rules which are solely up to their discretion. But your points on comparing it to a merchant account are likely true.

But consider these parallels:

1. I sell a product with my merchant account that is allowed today. My merchant turns around and because they don't really understand what it's all about says I can't sell it anymore.

2. I sell a product with ClickBank and a similar thing happens. I'm approved one day - out of the game the next.

I have way more options when it comes to my affiliates in the first case. My affiliate program is not dependent on my payment processor or merchant account.

On PDC and CB price comparisons, I know both are expensive as I stated. I don't consider PDC to be an alternative to ClickBank at all.

I think the refund issue is often exaggerated, but you do lose a lot of control in the situation with ClickBank - and I mean with legitimate requests. My info products also have a full refund policy, but they have to come to me to do so, which allows me to correct any customer service issues and perhaps even save a sale.

As a point of argument, I cannot accept Mike Filsaime's refund rate on a single product launch. My understanding is there were quite a few product delivery issues that could have affected those numbers and you can't just take one product launch of one seller to make a comparison.

On paying your affiliates, 1099s must be a pain, if you're American. ;-) Regardless, if I was required to send out 1099s, it would likely be handled by my VA and bookkeeper and the fee to me wouldn't come close to what ClickBank charged me for the service.

The trust issue is something to think about, but I think, in most cases, you are paying for the trust you might need in the short-term, but paying it over a long period of time. As a product seller, trust is built over time and through word of mouth. You don't *need" ClickBank to do that for you. However, if a seller is in a variety of niches, selling a variety of products and isn't really establishing a brand for themselves then I can see why they'd turn to ClickBank. In that case, the trust is likely something they'll need to buy.

Again, thank you for the feedback and you do provide another perspective and something to think about for all my readers considering ClickBank. I really appreciate your thoughts.

10:36 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hi Alice.

Yes, you make good points.

I agree that vendors have more control by not using ClickBank.

Here's another MAJOR negative with using ClickBank:

*CB vendors cannot recruit affiliates without having those same affiliates exposed to the other CB sites in the marketplace, essentially allowing your competitors to steal your affiliates with no effort.

---------------

As for 1099's, I agree that it's not a huge deal to let your CPA send them out. Though I'm a very by-the-book person, so I'd also have to get signed W-9's to protect myself from incorrect social security numbers or names, etc.

I just like the convenience of having ClickBank do it all, and then electronically Direct/Deposit my funds.

However, I agree with you that it's very easy to have your CPA take on those tasks.

---------------

As for your question about which US law ClickBank was referring to, I'd guess that there's no specific law which requires something as arbitrary as "5 sales".

I'd guess that they're just referring to their "general" legal obligation in not classifying anybody as a contractor (affiliate) until ClickBank is satisfied that the affiliate is a legit contractor (affiliate), not a discount seeker.

I'd therefore guess that the "5 sale rule" is just CB's own arbitrary criteria for classifying somebody as a legit contractor who works for them in the capacity of a contractor, and is not a one-time rebate seeker. **Of course, that's just my own personal guess and I may be wrong. LOL. :-)

I agree that it's not a perfect system (to make them wait for 5 sales), and there's collateral damage done to some legit affiliates since 5 sales can turn into 10 (with the VISA/MC rule).

Anyway, this was a good thread. See ya in another one. :-)

12:50 AM  

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